On the pre-production status

[Zamasu 258]

2 hours ago, agent008 said:

but it'd be naïve of us to think they could get by without making deals with some retailers.

That's not the problem here. I fully expected the phone to be sold at retailers at some point. Don't forget that F(x)tec also made deals with everyone of us pre-orderers.

2 hours ago, agent008 said:

The timing got screwed up and I can guess that certainly it wasn't Fxtec's plan for the retail units to be available before the pre-orderers'

Why are the deals with the shops more important than our deals? We were promised Christmas delivery as well, but instead of that the batches got cannibalized to deliver to these shops. We were set as second rate customers, we're getting the phones later because of this, even though they're literally still promising that they're prioritizing us. There's plenty of reason to be upset at this.

4 hours ago, matf said:

I do not see the link between those two sentences. They did not disclose when agreements and payments were made, but Erik said those few retailers approached F(x)tec in February at MWC.

No, the said since MWC, that's a pretty big timespan. And that also doesn't say when they closed the deal (pre-orders could be placed during MWC, which would be when those people closed the deal), not to mention when they paid which should indicate when people got their phones (lmao).

5 hours ago, matf said:

Actually discussions with the retailers started in February, before any individual pre-order

See above, don't spread misinformation please.

 

[agent008 238]

14 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

That's not the problem here. I fully expected the phone to be sold at retailers at some point. Don't forget that F(x)tec also made deals with everyone of us pre-orderers.

Well, I agree, to be honest I too never stopped to think about other deals with retailers or whatever other aspect of what they're trying to achieve, I really most of the time only focused on MY. OWN. UNIT. MY PRECIOUS. haha.

14 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Why are the deals with the shops more important than our deals? We were promised Christmas delivery as well, but instead of that the batches got cannibalized to deliver to these shops. We were set as second rate customers, we're getting the phones later because of this, even though they're literally still promising that they're prioritizing us. There's plenty of reason to be upset at this.

Now, here I have to take issue: where did I state retailers are more important than us? What really probably happened, is that resellers tied their money to deadlines and maybe fines, as a protection to their advance payments. We, on the other hand, merrily signed up for a phone from someone whom (most of us) we never met, without any kind of terms or conditions stating that we would get any kind of compensation for delays. Yet now we moan and scream and twitch because they are delayed. If you were Fxtec's manager/director/CEO, just think about it: would you do anything within reach to avoid the retailer's penalties? Which would come precisely at the point where your company's cashflow is at its worst with full-on production and no sales income (besides what you took months prior from pre-orders)? I am not saying it is polite, or pretty. I am saying I can understand the logic in the decision they made. But, no, I don't think anyone is more important than the next person.

PS. Duh, just a few hours ago I talked about leaving the forum. @Hook suggested I just skip this thread. Oh but what a fool and a stubborn man I am. Stayed in the forum, kept reading this thread. It's really just because this phone is really something special. Not the product itself but the whole enterprise of making it come true.

Edited December 19, 2019 by agent008
Misspelling corrected

[agent008 238]

2 hours ago, Hook said:

Don't abandon the forum.  Just abandon this thread (if you click on Eric's profile, you see just his contributions to this thread 😉 ).

Thanks. I will keep coming here for now. Even though sometimes we're just wasting time 🤣

[Zamasu 258]

13 minutes ago, agent008 said:

where did I state retailers are more important than us?

Where did I state that you stated that? I said that as that's what F(x)tec is thinking by prioritizing the shops.

14 minutes ago, agent008 said:

What really probably happened

Hey now, no assumptions. That's apparently no longer cool.

16 minutes ago, agent008 said:

resellers tied their money to deadlines and maybe fines, as a protection to their advance payments.

And that F(x)tec agreed to that is my problem why? F(x)tec chose to do that, and by choosing that they delayed my order.

17 minutes ago, agent008 said:

I am saying I can understand the logic in the decision they made

That's not an argument. If somebody were to rob a bank to feed a family, I can say I understand the logic, but that's still terrible. Just comparing arguments, nothing more here.

[agent008 238]

Just now, Zamasu said:

Where did I state that you stated that? I said that as that's what F(x)tec is thinking by prioritizing the shops.

Hey now, no assumptions. That's apparently no longer cool.

And that F(x)tec agreed to that is my problem why? F(x)tec chose to do that, and by choosing that they delayed my order.

That's not an argument. If somebody were to rob a bank to feed a family, I can say I understand the logic, but that's still terrible. Just comparing arguments, nothing more here.

All right, you win. No more energy to keep arguing about some company's decisions, even though they affect me or you to the tune of 700€ approximately.

I agree about assumptions. They might be taken as truths.

Let us all be angry, disappointed but still hopeful. And what do you know, someday we might find a very special box coming to our doors. haha

[Zamasu 258]

1 minute ago, agent008 said:

even though they affect me or you to the tune of 700€ approximately.

Because just everybody can spare 700€ all willy nilly, right? Just because the shops spend more they matter more? We don't matter at all? What an arrogant take, and the opposite of what they state is happening.

[agent008 238]

10 minutes ago, Zamasu said:

Because just everybody can spare 700€ all willy nilly, right? Just because the shops spend more they matter more? We don't matter at all? What an arrogant take, and the opposite of what they state is happening.

Please point out in my response - where does it say 700€ is willy nilly? Or even the other way around?

It is useless, but somehow I keep replying... just.... can't... stop...

Signed -- One arrogant forum user

PS. In my land 700€ might be your monthly pay if you are a graduated professional working at a management job. Be careful with what you assume from other people's words.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by agent008

[Zamasu 258]

3 minutes ago, agent008 said:

Please point out in my response - where does it say 700€ is willy nilly?

I quoted it, I never said you literally said it. It's an implication. If it wasn't to indicate that it's a more trivial amount, then I'd like to know what you meant by including that passage.

[agent008 238]

 

1 minute ago, Zamasu said:

I quoted it, I never said you literally said it. It's an implication. If it wasn't to indicate that it's a more trivial amount, then I'd like to know what you meant by including that passage.

Why yes, you'd like to know... But I shan't tell. ha ha

OH THE SUSPENSE...

[Zamasu 258]

Just now, agent008 said:

 

Why yes, you'd like to know... But I shan't tell. ha ha

OH THE SUSPENSE...

So you meant it like I said it, and now you're just backpedalling because you don't like the implication of how it sounds. Got it. Anyway, feel free to reply one last time or whatever if you feel the need to have the last post (or don't), but I'm not going to continue this off-topic discussion.

[Rob. S. 1,634]

I just don't get it. There are people who get pissed off because two or three tiny resellers got twenty phones before they got theirs? If I hear something like that, it makes me embarassed for belonging to the same species.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Rob. S.

[Combat Wombat 11]

Quote

Thanks for your message.

I just want to explain to you why a very small number of retailers have the Pro1. Firstly, they approached us when we first announced Pro1 at MWC in Feb and we've been in discussions with them since. They have promised to help with success of the Pro1 in the market place which is important for us, hence why we have offered them a small number of units (less than what they asked for might I add because of our other customer pre-orders). Our backers are our most important customers. For us to be a strong company for you we also have to build a sustainable business and if we turned those retailers away we would have lost their business going forwards. Our priority is getting devices to our pre order customers, this has not changed.

I would like to reemphasise that the small number of units delegated to such retailers had been agreed at the start of the year and this has not taken place of any customer devices. 

As per our recent email update, we expect to have fulfilled pre-orders by the end of January. At the moment, I cannot offer you a specific shipping date as we do not have access to the names of customers included in each upcoming shipment. We are working to get devices sent out as soon as possible so please bear with us.

Feel free to let us know if there's anything else we can help you with.

Kind regards,
F(x)tec Support

The content of this email is confidential and intended for the recipient specified in message only. It is strictly forbidden to share any part of this message with any third party, without a written consent of the sender.

 

[Swond 120]

Very sad to read this.  I am not sure whether this is just one unbelievable story, sad drama, horror movie or a real scenario. The point is indeed clear. Missing communication. I am not surprised people are getting angry. Seems there is some reason.. I am just sad about that 😞 And feel foolished. I can understand many things, I can stand really a lot, but this is getting quite over the line. Sad story. Very sad. 

[Roger 3]

7 minutes ago, Combat Wombat said:

 

I got the pretty much the same canned response 8 hours ago. It seems they got quite a few support questions in the last few hours.

[Kabbone 36]

actually the worst happened which could happened, has happened now. Instead of helping growing attention to the product to get more customers, all pre order people ordered all phones from the retailers 🙄. So the hoped effect of additional retailers just came to nothing and we came to the beginning again. I can understand the anger (I was angry too) but I can also understand the business decision. It could be like @EvilDragon stated how it went for the pandora. We as customers should also be aware that we win nothing if the company is bankrupt after the last device is delivered (or even worse before).

I agree that there are reasons for being angry because of the lack of communication, but don't forget the long run and it also seemed that it weren't too much devices out there. I don't want to stand in front of the company but I can understand the decision as long as we also get our devices in recent time.

[elvissteinjr 355]

35 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

I just don't get it. There are people who get pissed off because two or three tiny resellers got twenty phones before they got theirs? If I hear something like that, it makes me embarassed for belonging to the same species.

3 times 20 is almost half of the highest serial number we publicly know is in the wild. Support told me two weeks ago my device would be in the next shipment. Looks like it was, but I wasn't the recipient.
Your general response for someone not feeling the same as you seems a bit over the top. There's no need to be that degrading.

[Val 75]

42 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

I just don't get it. There are people who get pissed off because two or three tiny resellers got twenty phones before they got theirs? If I hear something like that, it makes me embarassed for belonging to the same species.

The Moto Mod was paid in the first months of 2 0 1 7. Digg up the repeated promise for the IGG backers.

Someone word have a meaning for you? How about yours, then? 

[glumreaper 144]

I get it, and I'd have been really annoyed. Waiting and waiting and wondering and hoping for the phone you preordered. For months. And then it turns out you (or anyone) could just buy it from a shop and have it reliably shipped within days. I would be seriously annoyed. I feel like FX could've communicated this out as an option to people. Yes, it could've lead to cancelled preorders while people bought from the stores instead. But it kinda looks like that's happened anyway.

[Rob. S. 1,634]

@Val I know. And things went badly. But not hopelessly bad, and most importantly, not fraudulently bad. Yes, I paid for the Moto Mod in March 2017, too. And I got an offer of a full refund, which I requested and immediately got paid in October 2018. While it already was clear that the Keyboard Mod's problems had not been their fault, this was another piece of evidence for me that these people are honest. And yes, their Pro1 shipping order may have become different from what they planned and promised. But now that the delivery finally seems to be within reach, people get their knickers in a twist because of some twenty devices that were sent earlier to two or three small, enthusiast retailers of the kind that companies like F(x)tec depend on? As I said, I just don't get it.  

@elvissteinjr No, "there's no need for" the behavior I'm referring to, no matter how many devices are "in the wild", while the people posting in this forum are no indication whatsoever for that number, either. Really, what do you think this is? A bunch of economic criminals trying to deceive their most important customers by not telling them that twenty devices were shipped to a retailer before theirs, and they choose to design, develop and manufacture a frigging SLIDER KEYBOARD SMARTPHONE, of all things, for the deceitful purpose? Yeah, of course.

People, do yourself a favour and think twice before posting stuff that says more about yourselves than about anything else.

[elvissteinjr 355]

No need to feel, just consume.

[Rob. S. 1,634]

16 minutes ago, glumreaper said:

turns out you (or anyone) could just buy it from a shop

Not anyone. Just a vanishingly small number of people which don't even matter for the whole picture. While it was important for F(x)tec to get their foot in the door of those shops, if they want to stay in business. 

[glumreaper 144]

30 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

@Val I know. [...]

People, do yourself a favour and think twice before posting stuff that says more about yourselves than about anything else.

Wow. Just wow.

[Val 75]

10 minutes ago, Rob. S. said:

@Val I know. And things went badly. But not hopelessly bad, and most importantly, not fraudulently bad. Yes, I paid for the Moto Mod in March 2017, too. And I got an offer of a full refund, which I requested and immediately got paid in October 2018. While it already was clear that the Keyboard Mod's problems had not been their fault, this was another piece of evidence for me that these people are honest. And yes, their Pro1 shipping order may have become different from what they planned and promised. But now that the delivery finally seems to be within reach, people get their knickers in a twist because of some twenty devices that were sent earlier to two or three small, enthusiast retailers of the kind that companies like F(x)tec depend on? As I said, I just don't get it.  .

There is a difference: you've requested a refund (kudos to Liangchen), I and others didn't. One of the first promises was that the IGG backers will be the first to receive the phone. This promise was repetead, followed by the logical one that the ones who PRE-ordered and paid will be the next in line. I'll not explain to you the notion of PRE-order.

Until now, no fxtec "update" mentioned that the IGG backers will have better chances to buy the phone faster from the stores, because the priority changed "overnight".

It's a matter of principle, even if for some people around here this concept doesn't exist.

Should I remind you the story of the Moto Mod? All is good and starting deliveries in february, then march then... cancel. I bought an Z2 force based on that promise and it was not very cheap then.

[Thunderhaake 8]

21 minutes ago, Val said:

Should I remind you the story of the Moto Mod? All is good and starting deliveries in february, then march then... cancel.

And that's why I bought my Phone now from a retailer. Some Moto Mods are made and shipped. But the rest of us had no luck....

For me the Story repeats and I did not want to be fooled twice...

Edited December 19, 2019 by Thunderhaake

[matf-kabouik 414]

3 hours ago, Zamasu said:

No, the said since MWC, that's a pretty big timespan. And that also doesn't say when they closed the deal (pre-orders could be placed during MWC, which would be when those people closed the deal), not to mention when they paid which should indicate when people got their phones (lmao).

See above, don't spread misinformation please.

 

I am not spreading any misinformation. Erik did say they were approached at MWC and have been discussing since then. I specifically wrote that I don't know when they paid, but that discussions started at MWC. If they were approached at MWC, then I think it is safe to assume they replied. It was a stand, not discussions over emails at that time.

Edited December 19, 2019 by matf